Coffee Hour

Ike Stephenson says:

Our congregation's board read the book and will use it as a basis for your yearly retreat.

chutney says:

Have there been any changes in the church since then, because of that retreat?

chutney says:

Scott has posted a reply entitled Almost Church an Almost Read? over at Boy in the Bands.

Revsparker says:

I read the book at GA and was sorely disappointed. The UUism that Mike Durall is so vehemently opposed to is not the UUism I've seen in any of the many churches I've attended or served. Maybe Mike has spent too much time in New England?

The churches that drew me to this movement were friendly, warm, and healthy. Their leadership was thoughtful and passionate. They didn't believe money was evil, though they were sometimes shy about talking about it. They reached out to newcomers and took care of each other.

I gave my Board of Trustees and Committee on Ministry copies of a book this year too, but it wasn't The Almost Church. It was Tom Owen-Towles Growing the Beloved Community: Ten Hallmarks of a Healthy Congregation. Where Durall's book is a litany of complaints, Owen-Towles is a vision of what we can—and what many congregations have—bring into being.

My BOT and COM found it inspiring, affirming, and thought-provoking. And most importantly, it didn't tell them that they were wrong, bad, or misinformed. It let them see what we do right and what we could do better. Rather than chastising them for what they aren't, it celebrated what they are and held up a vision of what they could be.

I didn't find Mike Durall's book helpful or prophetic. I found it negative and blaming.

Revsparker

Scott Wells says:

By the way, I tried to Trackback my post several times, but no dice.

chuntey says:

Argh. They were supposed to finally fix that in WordPress 1.2.1.

chutney says:

Revsparker, could you post a quick summary of those ten point?

Ike Stephenson says:

The retreat just occured on the 30th, so it's a bit early to see changes. One of the biggest concepts we discussed was expectations of members.

chutney says:

Found a listing of Garland's twelve points at Phil's Little Blog on the Prairie:

Occupy Holy Ground
Welcome All Souls
Care for Your Own
Give Everyone a Voice
Encourage Unity Amidst Diversity
Balance Justice and Joy
Look Back, Around, and Ahead
Spread Our Good News
Practice Respect
Nurture Stewards
Keep Journeying
Know That You Are Not Alone

NancyP says:

Hello, I'm NancyP, the layleader, wannabe growth consultant, dabbler in theology, and a lurker on chris's blog.

My comments on Durall's book Our board took a leap of faith and carefully followed Durall's book on creating generous congregations. WE asked (expected) 5% tithe (UU math) and changed our culture around money and stewardship.

I'm waiting for my copy of 'almost church'. I've talked to a few ministers who find the book very negative and critical. Maybe I will feel differently after I read it, but given UU lack of growth, perhaps we need a wake-up call.

Kill the committees. Too many boards worry about filling positions, and control. Give lay members an opportunity to create their own mission work. The world will not end if their is a vacancy in the denominational affairs committee. A lot of committee work is like housework, you don't notice you haven't be doing it until someone points out how a good church should be structured. Last year UUCA laity initiated study groups or programs on humanism, chanting, eco-spirituality, simplicity circles, imagining god.

And Policy Governance {aka Carver} is not my idea of a flexible structure. How did so many bright UU's who believe in plurality decide there is only one right way to govern.

And why should we treat ministers as visionary leaders? In this faith community, vision is not something one gets through the laying on of hands. (I missed the qualication for vision in the Mormon church but for a different reason) Leadership is earned - and vision is shared.

I like ministers - admire your commitments and talents. I'm currently taking a Starr King online graduate course on UU Theology - I'm impressed with your vocabulary. And I know laity could be more tolerant and gentle with clergy. Being a minister in a UU church requires a great balancing act.

pre-election jitters. I need to go light my candle.

NancyP

Mike Durall says:

Hmmm..not sure I'm supposed to be on this. Is it open to anyone? I didn't intend to write a negative book with The Almost Church, but rather wanted to focus on creating the kind of church that people year for. This is doable. The only problem (and maybe this is where some believe I was negative) we are carrying around so many institutionalized bad habits and so much baggage that it makes this job extremely difficult.

Included in this baggage is seeking truth and freedom of the individual, two great liabilities of the movement.

As for those healthy congregations out there, yes there are some. If you look closely, however, few have any kind of substantitve outreach component. UUism is mostly a religion in the heads of middle class white people, and this is difficult for many to be reminded of. A colleague of mine often says that a lot or churches motivate people to go home and have lunch. Alas, too many of our churches fit this description.

Until we believe we have a faith that changes people's lives in some fundamental way, and until we can ask people to make some sacrifice for the greater good, we're likely to remain largely ineffective as a religious movement. Helping bring about systemic change is the vineyard in which I labor.

chutney says:

Mike,

Yes, Coffee Hour is open to everyone, and you're more than welcome here.

Those who would be prophets always have a foot in both painful diagnosis and visionary prescription. And I'm reminded of what Jesus said about prophets and their home towns. I admire your courage for speaking your truth.

But, with that in mind, I admit I did feel a little discouraged after reading The Almost Church. But perhaps this is just my preferred mood when I'm reminded that something I care about it "human, all too human." ;-)

As someone who sometimes aspires to the role of prophet, I am often conflicted between folks' desire to see concrete proposals that would solve the problem I see, on one hand, and on the other the desire to pressure them to work that out on their own, because, after all, I'm only one guy and takes many folks' contributions to solve any systemic problem. Just last week I heard another would-be prophet complain that it's "so American" to expect "quick fixes" from prophetic voices.

And yet I'd sure like a few myself.

Yours in the struggle,
chutney

Nancy says:

Mike,

Your book, which I have now read twice, has been disheartening to my soul. You say we have systemic problems - but changing is doable -and - I can't see how without a major culture change, wailing and gnashing of teeth. (You did say truth seeking and freedom of the individual are baggage.) Those are the sacred words of UU'sm. Having spent 15-20 years as a Mormon, I would not want to go back to 'follow the brethren'.

I think we don't expect much from our members - baby boomers disown their old junior high level theology but are not able or willing to move beyond that. We need a way to develop and own a faith that goes to the core of our being. A 30 second elevator speech isn't it.

I've read sermons about UU evangelism "spread (witness) the good news" We need a bold and clear defnition of that good news - news that is transformative in every way, personal, in justice and vision.

I am in a healthy, growing congregation (Annapolis) - I led the development of five year strategic plan, then led the Board for five years in implementing it. Great minister, 540+ members. It was in that context, I read your book. Yes, UUCA stacked up pretty well.

The second time I read 'Almost Church', I was troubled by a thought that I am 'Almost a Religious' being. Perhaps I am too hard on myself. It has been a challenging journey - one where I found Unitarian Universalism, a space of freedom to find myself, my voice, and to see others with more compassion. Where else would I want to be.

Best,

Nancy Proctor

ps. I'm involved in UU evangelism and church growth - love to hear more of your thoughts

Mike Durall says:

I think the great liability of the movement is the lack of a core purpose, the first sentence in The Almost Church. We haven't really figured out what it means to be a church member, after all these years, and our expectations are so very low. Many UUs describe their churches as country clubs with candles, places that offer little more than self-enlightenment and entertainment.

Instead of clarifying who we are, we're more often defined by what people didn't like in their previous churches . For example, my old church had a minister who was a strong leader and I didn't like that, so UU ministers should not be strong leaders. My old church asked for too much money, so UU churches should ask for less. My old church did...whatever, so we shouldn't do that in UU churches.

Robert Wuthnow at Princeton often writes about liberal religion needing to be more than a reaction to conservative faiths. It needs to find a third way, and he believes that way is anti-secularism, leading lives that go against the grain of the prevailing consumer culture; lives of dedication, commitment, and when necessary, sacrifice.

We don't use language like this very often in UU churches. People today yearn to be a meaningful part of meaningful communities. When you ask ministers how many people joined their churches because they are seeking truth, are concerned about freedom of the individual, or desire the democratic process, the answer invariably is, "Zero."

Its not that I'm trying to be negative. It's more that the world has changed around us, and we haven't kept pace.

Jake says:

It's important to understand "The Almost Church" within the context of a wider conversation about the future of the Protestant church.

In the latest Christian Century, there's a succinct summary of the "Emergent Church" movement, an attempt--mostly by Gen X-ers--to forge a post-liberal church.

The strategy is to transcend old, brittle modes of liberalism and conservatism. Liberalism, they say, has been theologically dynamic, but methodologically rigid; conservatism has been the opposite.

The Emergent Church movement--they call it a "conversation," rather than a movement--is not the latest Willow Creek MTV-style marketing tool; it's not an "anti-church" as Baby Boomers tend to favor. It comes after Willow Creek, and could be called "ancient church." Rather than doing away with traditional iconography and practice, Emergent-folk embrace it, but infused with new meaning.

The Christian Century article says that these folks try to maintain an "ancient-future" dynamic in their practice, as well as a "resistant-relevant" tension in their relation to society. Its chief theologians are folks like Stanley Hauerwas and Whassisname Yoder, who champion notions like "we are a story-formed people," and "our practice is our identity," in reaction to liberal-era propositional theologies.

A friend of mine, who you may know--a Unitarian Universalist married to an Episcopalian, who maintains a certain blog--jokes that their family is "Unipalian," following the practice of "creedless ritual." It may be that the Emergent Church takes this joke seriously.

As a liberal church, how can Unitarian Universalism embrace these post-liberal tensions--especially "ancient-future"? As a pluralist movement, how do we meet the standards of coherent post-modern iconography and practice without being history-hating New Agers?

To my eyes, The Almost Church positively engages these questions in ways few in our movement have.

Peace,
Jake

p.s. One of the many blessings of new parenthood is needing something to do at five in the morning, while the boy-king nestles down, once again, to his all-too-fleeting sleep. Thank you for keeping me, in these hours, from snacking on old food I don't like.

Revsparker says:

Mike,
First, I am glad you are here and glad for this conversation to continue even though I didn't see your comments for some time. I hope it's not too late.

Tomorrow morning, I will welcome twenty new members to my congregation. I would say ALL of them came looking to be part of a meaningful community. Each one was seeking truth, though maybe none of them were committed to the democratic process or came because they were concerned about freedom for individuals. But every single one of them came to be part of a *meaningful* community. (not a country club.)

I love your other two books and I would recommend them (and have) to nearly anyone. I've been to one of your workshops on giving and I think you have a lot of things right. The problem I had with *The Almost Church* is that it came across to me as a giant complaint--a sort of rant about how UU churches are just social clubs.

Maybe I am even luckier than I know, but the congregations I have served have always strived to be more than just clubs. Yes, we fall short in a lot of ways, but I haven't known a single UU congregation that didn't want to make the world a better place and foster deep, real change in our society and in our selves. Sure we fail (a lot.) But I expect that. I preach regularly on forgiveness b/c UUs need to be reminded that grace, reconciliation, and failure are all a part of being human.

Perhaps that's the thing. My experience in congregations is that they expect themselves and their ministers to be perfect and when they inevitably are not, they sink into depression and low church-esteem. I felt like your book would only add to that.

Churches that make real changes in individuals and in the world are churches that try, fail, and try again. They are growing, learning communities. They know they are important, but don't give up when someone (the minister, another member, or themselves) disappoints them. In fact, they learn that disappointment is a sign that they are really trying to be the person and the church they long to be.

I know people are longing for meaningful community. We have visitors every Sunday who are longing for that very thing. I'd say ALL of them come seeking truth. By the time they've decided to join, it is my fervent hope that they are also committed to freedom and democracy. They have heard stories of our very human forebears who made lots of mistakes, and still changed the world.

The thing about *The Almost Church* is that it picks the scabs off all our old wounds. We beat ourselves up so much for being too white, too rich, too navel-gazing, too whatever...I don't think it does any good. It isn't prophetic, in my opinion, because it's all the same old complaints.

Prophecy demands a new vision. I didn't find enough of that in *The Almost Church* to sway me. Tell me, Mike, what does the Kingdom of God look like in UU churches? Describe the Beloved Community to me... Tell me how the Kindred of God, the interdependent web of all existence, these deeply meaningful UU communities you and I and all of us yearn for would behave. Imagine that for me and then write another book. Call it *The Longed-for Church* or *Real UU Religion* and send me a couple hundred copies... I'll make sure people read them.

Revsparker

Chris Walton says:

Jake, the Christian Century article about the Emergent Church is now (temporarily) on-line — so everybody read it and print out a copy while you can: "The Emergent Matrix: A New Kind of Church?" by Scott Bader-Saye, Christian Century 11.30.04.

UU Seminarian says:

I'm wading in here, although I profess I haven't yet read Mike's book. I'm only going to leave some quick observations, because I need to get back to the end of the semester grind.

Save-the-denomination books: Mike's book certainly isn't the first of this type. For example, I was recently perusing Salted With Fire, which was published in 1994 as another save-the-denomination book. Why do Save-the-denomination books continue to get written? I guess the simple answer is because nothing of substance changes in response to them. Are we in fact able to change as a denomination?

Navel-gazing- what a wonderfully secular word. Let's not beat ourselves up too much for this. Going to a seminary, I realize that the Christians are just as guilty of this transgression. It's only that there is a different name for it when they do it: grossly excessive piety. I'm taking a worship course in which I'm the only UU and non-Christian. I have to say I'm getting pretty damn tired of hearing how much better their worship, which is as "tired" as ours, is because it allows them to revel in being saved by Jesus.

I close with this: Mike is giving a workshop using the concepts in his book this February. http://www.mbduua.org/Durall%20Flyer.pdf
Whether one agrees with the book or not (I don't know yet whether I do), I think it's always better to hear things "directly from the horses mouth" so to speak.